At Inquiry, Trudeau Singles Out Tory Lawmakers for Foreign Interference Involvement

Commissioner Justice Marie-Josée Hogue asks Prime Minister Justin Trudeau a question as he appears as a witness before the Foreign Interference Commission in Ottawa, on Oct. 16, 2024. The Canadian Press/Justin Tang

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau told the Foreign Interference Commission he knows the names of Conservative parliamentarians who are engaged in foreign meddling, and faulted Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre for not getting a security clearance to learn those names. Under questioning by counsel for the Conservatives, Trudeau added that he’s also aware of Liberal lawmakers, as well as those from other parties, who are implicated in foreign interference concerns.

“I have the names of a number of parliamentarians, former parliamentarians, and or candidates in the Conservative Party of Canada who are engaged or at high risk of, or for whom there is clear intelligence around foreign interference,” Trudeau said on Oct. 16.

The issue of which lawmaker is involved in foreign meddling has been a hot topic ever since intelligence leaks about Beijing interference appeared in the media in the fall of 2022.

It intensified in June when the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians (NSICOP) released a report saying some lawmakers have been “‘semi-witting or witting’ participants in the efforts of foreign states to interfere in our politics.” The redacted version of the report doesn’t provide the details of which lawmakers are involved.

In response to the prime minister’s remarks at the inquiry, Poilievre accused him of “lying” and repeated his past calls for Trudeau to “release the names of all MPs that have collaborated with foreign interference.”

The Liberal government has been asking the leaders of opposition parties to obtain security clearance to see the unredacted version of the NSICOP report. While other opposition parties have accepted the offer, Poilievre has rejected it, saying that doing so would tie his hands as the Opposition leader and prevent him from openly criticizing the government on security matters.

While the Tories are asking for the names of the implicated lawmakers be made public, the Liberals say that doing so would be irresponsible and that some of the cases are “uncorroborated.”

The two parties have since often clashed on this point.

Testimony

The prime minister made his comment about the Tories as he was being asked by a commission counsel what happens when he receives intelligence regarding potential foreign interference involving opposition parties.

Trudeau’s interview summary with the commission recounts how his National Security and Intelligence Advisor (NSIA) had provided him with “explosive” information on “significant” foreign interference involving unspecified opposition parties.

The summary said Trudeau had asked his NSIA and the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) to prepare a plan to respond.

“However, it was not good for a democracy that he use his role as Prime Minister, while also leader of the Liberal Party, to avail himself of information he obtained about potential FI [foreign interference] involving opposition parties if it could be perceived as being used to embarrass them,” says the summary, paraphrasing Trudeau’s words.

Asked to comment on this evidence by commission counsel, Trudeau called the information he had received on foreign interference “extremely alarming.” He said he directed CSIS to try to ensure the opposition parties were equipped to deal with the allegations, which involved briefing party leaders.

“I have to be really careful about what I say here, because this is all very, very sensitive, and even talking about which party these allegations aimed at is something I’m trying to avoid doing,” Trudeau said. “I don’t believe in ... using national security information for partisan purposes, nor should any prime minister.”

Trudeau subsequently said he was stepping away from this specific example about “explosive” information and made the comment about knowing the names of Tory lawmakers involved in foreign interference.

Trudeau said that because Poilievre has refused to obtain a security clearance, no one in his party or “in a position of power knows the names of these individuals and can take appropriate action.”

Nando de Luca, counsel for the Conservative Party of Canada, challenged that assertion and said that Poilievre’s chief of staff Ian Todd had received a “number of top secret briefings” from security officials and the names of Tory lawmakers or candidates weren’t brought to his attention. “Why is that?” asked de Luca.

Trudeau responded that de Luca should ask CSIS and said he supposed it could be because Todd is not in charge of choosing party candidates, as the information is only provided on a “need-to-know basis.”

In rejecting the offer to receive clearance, Poilievre said, “The CSIS Act allows the government to offer information to any Canadian about specific risks of foreign interference without forcing them into sworn secrecy or controlling what they say.” The Conservative leader added that Trudeau is trying to “distract from a Liberal caucus revolt against his leadership and revelations he knowingly allowed Beijing to interfere and help win two elections.”

Other Names

De Luca called Trudeau’s testimony on Tory lawmakers “salacious” and asked if he knew the names of any Liberal parliamentarians or candidates at risk of being compromised by foreign interference.

“Yes,” said Trudeau. “And for other parties as well, because I have access to large amounts of information.”

De Luca remarked that Trudeau did not mention those earlier, to which the prime minister defended that much time was spent during the last round of public hearings on issues within the Liberal Party, notably the 2019 Liberal nomination contest in the Toronto riding of Don Valley North.

Trudeau had allowed Han Dong to run as the candidate for Don Valley North after being briefed about intelligence of irregularities in the contest linking back to the Chinese Consulate. The commission received intelligence about Chinese international students being bused in and provided with falsified documents to be allowed to vote for Dong under threat from the Chinese Consulate.

Dong, who left the Liberal caucus in March 2023 amid intelligence leaks in the press about his links to the Chinese Consulate, told the inquiry in the spring that he was unaware of the irregularities. He has not been returning requests for comment from The Epoch Times.

While Trudeau said he knows the names of lawmakers engaged in foreign interference, his two most senior security officials have cast doubts on some of the conclusions in the NSICOP report as well as on public commentaries made about the report.

“It is a gross partisan exaggeration, and I think irresponsible for people to—and many have in the public domain—claim that there are traitors sitting in Parliament and treasonous people,” said Public Safety Minister Dominic LeBlanc when he testified before the commission on Oct. 15.

Trudeau’s NSIA Nathalie Drouin offered similar comments on Oct. 9.

“The fact that NSICOP focused on MPs, labelling them in a certain way to the effect they could have acted wittingly—and even bringing the definition that some could be traitors—makes me very uncomfortable,” she said. “Because that’s not what I see.”

Drouin testified that she saw information about some lawmakers whom she described as displaying “inappropriate behaviours” or “lack of judgment,” or whom she would “maybe trust less,” but said that they didn’t “really put Canada’s security at risk.”

The commission had been tasked earlier this year to probe the NSICOP report amid calls by opposition parties to release the names of the colluding parliamentarians.

In a notice to the public in September, the commission said it couldn’t disclose the names given national security and due process considerations. It said, however, that it would try to have some of its findings released.

Commissioner Marie-José Hogue has until the year-end to submit her final report. Her interim report, focusing on the last two elections, was tabled in May. Hogue said foreign interference did not impact the overall results but that individual ridings were potentially affected.