RCMP Commissioner Brenda Lucki told the Public Order Emergency Commission on Nov. 15 that she received no pressure from politicians or senior officials to take action to deal with the Freedom Convoy protest of last winter.
“Absolutely not. I didn’t feel the pressure from our point of view because we weren’t the police of jurisdiction, but I did feel the pressure internally, because we wanted to do everything we could to help,” said Lucki.
“And I would say that the politicians felt the same pressure of wanting this to end,” and would ask whether the RCMP is doing everything it can to help with the situation, she added.
Lucki was responding to commission counsel Gordon Cameron asking whether she ever had the sense ministers or senior officials were putting pressure on her in a way that “crossed the line” with regards to how Ottawa should be policed.
Lucki said that her outfit is never told what to do with regards to operational matters, but does receive administrative direction from ministers.
The RCMP Commissioner was testifying alongside her deputy Michael Duheme, who’s in charge of federal policing.
Both were presented with various pieces of evidence filed at the commission that can raise doubts about whether police had independence.
Lucki was asked to comment on a text message exchange she had with Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) Commissioner Thomas Carrique, in which they expressed their desire for Steve Bell to remain in place at the helm of the Ottawa Police Service (OPS) after its chief Peter Sloly resigned on Feb. 15.
“Had DM Stewart reach into Steve K (Ottawa City Manager. He assures they are very sensitive to this, keen for the ICC [Integrated Command Centre] plan to proceed and don’t want Bell to be displaced. Rob got the sense that there is a lot of political infighting going on,” Lucki wrote to Carrique on Feb. 16.
Lucki confirmed to the commission she had told then-deputy minister of Public Safety Rob Stewart to reach out to Ottawa City Manager Steve Kanellakos to help keep Bell in place to ensure continuity.
“Were any red flags going off in your mind when this dialogue took place between you and Commissioner Carrique that you would go to Canada’s Deputy Minister of Public Safety who would go to an official in the City of Ottawa, to exercise influence about who would be the next interim chief?” asked counsel Cameron.
Lucki said the intention wasn’t to influence who would be chief, but that there was a concern replacing Bell would set back the police operation to clear the protest.
“I didn’t look at it in the eyes that you’re looking at it,” Lucki told Cameron.
‘Need to Take it Over’
Brendan Miller, Freedom Corp counsel representing some of the convoy protest organizers, pursued that angle of potential political interference during his cross-examination of Lucki and Duheme.Duheme took handwritten notes of a Feb. 3 call with Clerk of the Privy Council Janice Charette, the most senior public servant who answers directly to the prime minister.
“We need to take this over, do they know what this means,” Charette is paraphrased as saying.
“But saying it and doing it is two different things,” Duheme said in addressing that comment.
Miller also asked whether it was fair to say that the political executive and the executive branch of the federal government were asking for operational plans from the OPS.
Duheme had written in an internal RCMP chat while monitoring a meeting of Liberal ministers and senior officials on Feb. 5 that the Privy Council Office (PCO) was asking to see an operational plan from the OPS.
“No ops plan should [be] shared with PCO......my two cents,” wrote Duheme in the chat.
