ET: Mr Higgins, you have been a public figure for many years. How did you get involved in politics?
JH: Well, I have been a political activist for decades. I think you see in society that there are major injustices and inequalities in how resources are distributed, and how wealth is generated and then used, and political activism for a left-wing person or a socialist is really to change that; to see that the major wealth produced is for the benefit of society and the majority to create a better life, a better society for everybody.
ET: Did you grow up in a political family?
JH: No, not really, that wouldn’t have been a factor. My parents were very generous people who were generous to strangers, and I’m sure that you do learn a lot of attitudes unconsciously from that. But they weren’t politically affiliated.
ET: When you were starting off in politics, who were your political role-models? Who would have motivated you to take the path that you took, as a left-wing politician?
JH: That wouldn’t really have been a factor: I’m not really big into the idea of heroes, and it would have been more a convention of how society was organised, how it needed to be changed, the ideas, the policies, the programmes that would be necessary to change that and the methods of organisation to change it. That was part of that process obviously. Then there were the many founders of the socialist movement, going back to Karl Marx and James Connolly, Jim Larkin, men and women whom we don’t know, the countless who made immense sacrifices to build organisations that would fight for the rights of working people, so we really stand on the shoulders of those who went before us.
ET: Many people will be entering life as a TD for the first time following this election. Many politicians have experienced how frustrating political life can be in the Dáil. What advice would you give to somebody who is starting off as a TD? Do you think it is still possible to make a difference in Irish politics?
JH: I think it depends on what their intention is. Somebody just starting off and entering politics with the idea of making a big career and as part of the right-wing consensus ... I have no advice for them because they won’t add to the well-being of society. People who are becoming involved for genuine reasons, to try and fight to change things and fight for justice, they have to look carefully at who they should ally themselves with and which organisation they should become part of because on your own, you really aren’t effective; you have to be part of a group, and then it depends on the movement’s aims and objectives. That’s why I’m part of the socialist movement, because our aim and objective is to transform the structures of society, how the ownership of major wealth is determined and used. But if people going into the Dáil as genuine representatives, if they have the right idea, programme strategy, then they can make a substantial contribution to the movement to change society, not simply by speaking in the Dáil, but using their position to mobilise people outside to be a force for change.
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ET: Describe your experience of being an MEP? What could be achieved there? What were the major difficulties?
JH: Well it’s a different arena to the Dáil. It is a huge institution; you’re talking about 750 members of the European Parliament. But I think that for the left we have always had an international perspective, so in whichever area you’re specialising in, in terms of committees, you have to bring that perspective to it. I remember the International Trade Committee, and I think we have been able to do good work in trying to outline how the European Union deals with the poorer countries around the world, and how the European Union really represents the big European-based corporations and multinationals who impose very onerous conditions in terms of trade, causing a lot of environmental problems in the poorer countries. You to try to outline all of that and bring it into the public domain and into the discussion and fight for change, and link up, particularly with people in those countries who are fighting the effects of predatory trade practices ... so that’s quite a meaningful role. The other issue would have been dealing with campaigns of ordinary people in Europe. I would have spoken with thousands of Greek workers against the savage attacks on their living standards and conditions at the behest of the IMF and the EU. Assisting campaigns like the huge campaign in North-West Italy against the huge environmental disruption caused by a massively fast train project. So it is potentially a very meaningful role, again, if you have clear ideas and strategy with regard to how to use the position.
ET: Was it frustrating, the fact that your work as an MEP got so little press coverage in Ireland?
JH: The media here is quite insular in regard to many of these issues and, in any case, it’s a capitalist media: its main aim is to protect the system from which it benefits. They wouldn’t be interested in giving any more publicity than they would have to to somebody who stands for the destruction of that system. But the people who are concerned know and that’s the important thing, and they appreciate the support we give, and through our own media websites, our supporters know what we are doing.
ET: I had an interview with a Senator recently, and I asked him what role the Irish media played in the financial crash, and the influence it has on politics in general. He said that modern social media allow for an outlet for individuals, no matter who they are, to speak directly to the people. Will Facebook or Twitter play a part in your election campaign?
JH: Yes, they play a big part in our campaign. We have a website (joehiggins.eu) where our team keeps updated all the work we are doing inside and outside the parliament and where thousands of people can look in and follow the work and make their views known on it, and we will be using all aspects of the modern media for the forthcoming election campaign here. However, some people think that the world can be changed by sitting at a computer, but it can’t. Media are a method of communication and assistance, but there is no substitute for people mobilising and organising, and coming together and meeting up together physically, and protesting, and demonstrating, and working out a plan for an alternative.
ET: Did your view of the EU change after becoming an MEP?
JH: I am only an MEP for less than two years; I had a view of the European Union. We fought many referenda on the various treaties. To us, the EU is primarily a facilitation for European corporate power to trade more effectively and make more profit. And to trade effectively around the world, and it wants to be able to go on to the world stage with the same weight as United States imperialism or China for the benefit of European corporations. So it is primarily an economic vehicle in the interest of corporate profit, so we stand for a different kind of Europe; a Europe of working people, where we do have solidarity across the board, but on an entirely different basis.
ET: At the moment in Ireland, many people feel disconnected to politics or the political class. Is the way people become a TD or Councillor in Ireland, as is it currently structured, out of reach of the ordinary people?
JH: The structures are extremely limited. We have a government now that has no democratic mandate. It was elected in 2007 and is now carrying out policies that wouldn’t have been dreamt of in 2007. So what you need is a democratic socialist society structure which reflects changing circumstances, and that the views of people can be brought to bear very quickly by a direct political democratic representation, with recall of representatives who don’t carry out the mandate, and so, yes, an entirely different structure is what is called for. But, while we are stuck with a capitalist society, we will try to use such structures that exist through the councils and the Dáil and argue for a new society.
ET: Regarding the cost of running a campaign and where the funds come from: I think many people aren’t aware of how it works. Can you explain the system?
JH: We, the Socialist Party, only get support from our own members; financial support from our supporters, working people, young people generally, that’s who we rely on. We don’t take corporate donations or donations from developers. Obviously, running an election campaign is expensive but we have to raise money through appeals and events, supporters; and starting off an election campaign now, the first thing you have to do is to go to the bank and see if you can negotiate a substantial overdraft to start the campaign off, because a lot of small enterprises that do posters want your money down. Yes, it is a commitment and onerous, but you have to do it.
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ET: It was mentioned about the Socialist Party being a real alternative to the other groupings out there. Would you like to elaborate?
JH: In the establishment politics of the present time, you have all the main parties in Dáil Eireann and all are committed to implementing the programme dictated by the IMF, European Commission and the European Central Bank. A programme that is in the interest of recovering the bad gambling debts of European speculators, financiers, and bankers and putting those bad debts onto the shoulders of the Irish people, for which they carry no responsibility. It’s criminal, what’s going on. So we, the Socialist party, and then the United Left Alliance, which is a wider alliance of the left, stand resolutely opposed to that policy. We say not a penny to the gamblers, bondholders, to the bad debt holders, and we (would) re-shape and re-organise the financial structure of Ireland and Europe as a whole. Because the working class in Greece, Spain, Portugal, wherever, are all caught up in the same disastrous system. This speculative, exploitative system, running the interest of small minorities for their enrichment and at the expense of society, has to be broken and replaced, and the alternative is a financial system that is democratically accountable: Owned, controlled and run for the benefit of the majority in society, and in that way we can have loans at reasonable rates for small enterprises, self-employed people and then major infrastructural projects that desperately need to be carried out in every country, and put tens of thousands of people here, millions of people in Europe to work for the benefit of society.
ET: Throughout this interview you have mentioned equality, fair distribution of wealth, democracy, and championing the rights of the working people. What structures exist in the Socialist Party to ensure that you don’t stray too far away from your principles if you get into power?
JH: The Socialist Party has thorough democracy with regular meetings, a national conference every year, which is the supreme polity and decision making body, and then has elected leadership and is in a constant process of discussion with the membership among themselves. It is very important to add democratic structures that then have to be replicated, in the sense that any member of the Socialist Party who is in public office is obliged to carry out the policy of the mandate of the party. We have a principle that our members in public office do not materially gain as a result of that, so they would be on the average industrial wage plus necessary expenses, and they would account for that every year to the conference with the financial accounts, etc.
ET: How transparent is that? You would get paid a certain wage with the rest going back to the Irish state?
JH: No, we don’t give it back to the state so that they can give it to the Anglo Irish Bank and fill the black hole! We take those funds and we utilise them for campaigns and so on, but that’s reported where the money goes. Our people in the Dáil will take the average industrial wage, there will be costs for travelling ... we account for those and the rest. We are only allowed to give 6,300 euro directly to the Party each year because of the rules on donations, but we give substantial amounts to campaigning groups, workers on strike, all kinds of different national and international organisations.
ET: Are those made public, are they viewable?
JH: Yes. I have a pension from the Dáil as well, which is 1,900 euro a month. I refused to give that back to Anglo Irish Bank. That is used for donations; it is not used for the Socialist Party, so the first six months of that from last year will be on the website, and the full accounts for 2011 will be on within a week or two, plus I hope to have up on the website the accounts for the first 18 months of my time in the European Parliament.
ET: Would the same rules apply for the other members of the Socialist Party?
JH: I am the only person in the party who would have substantial income at the moment. We have an established method for accounting for the Party, but we have to come up with structures to ensure that the accounting information is publicised.
ET: What’s your political vision for Ireland?
JH: We stand for an Ireland that is democratic and socialist. That means the major wealth, the banks and so on are under democratic control and developed and utilised for the benefit of society. On that basis you can create the wealth necessary to generate and improve our public services, give our pensioners a decent standard of living, put everybody to work, and involve all the citizens in the running of society. Currently, we say not a penny to the speculators and bondholders. We say the wealth, and there is enormous wealth in a minority of hands, should be taxed to provide for the services that are being cut. We would put financial institutions under democratic control to develop the wealth. Our natural resources should be in full public ownership for the benefit of society; so it’s an entirely different way of running society from the control by a handful of corporations. We stand for the fullest democratic and social rights, fullest freedom of discussion. We believe the media should be in public ownership, and all the opinions and groups in society should have a voice in it: currently, we don’t have a free press. It is controlled by billionaires pretending to be a free press. We want an entirely different situation internationally. We want trade between countries and the developing world, not cut-throat policy; the development of natural resources to be in accordance with justice; the environment being protected. It is a completely different world. A world where the obscenity of the billions, countless billions spent on weapons of mass destruction would be eliminated and the massive criminal wastage of human talent of engineers and scientists and manufacturing workers in creating horrible weapons. All that to be devoted to the benefit of society, providing clean water for everybody on the planet.
The Epoch Times is profiling prominent figures in all political parties in the run up to the election
